Where is it written one must to draw in 1.5 seconds? If one is really aware, there are few if any circumstances that require such. Even Marshal Dillon in Gunsmoke usually had time to walk down the street. Timed shots abound on qualification ranges and one should always be on guard against getting ‘range happy.’ Real world combat bears little if no relationship to the, ‘ready on the right, ready on the left’ qualification range.
My old federal job required me to qualify every month and we shot about 500 rounds per qualification. Of course we shot more than that, some of us shot that much every day. After about 50,000 rounds a year one becomes, well smooth. With that kind of practice, smooth is almost always very very fast and deadly accurate. I shot the SIG P220 and due to the small magazine capacity, carried a lot of magazines. I found the back pockets to be the best place to carry magazines (for qualification shoots), and not in two pouch belt magazine holders (of course one of the the very best places is in a chest rig). I carry a .22 in the pocket (an old High Standard two shot .22 magnum derringer) and of course have a P220 and spare magazines concealed elsewhere on my person.
I like the .22 magnum due to it’s small size and awesome penetration. In fact, I could shoot it from the pocket if need be.
I know fast and I know smooth. I also know accurate as do I shoot the left eye or right eye or where ever. Having so said, I repeat, being totally aware of circumstances usually precludes the need to be either fast or smooth.
For those who do carry loose in the pocket, I recommend one not use that pocket for anything other than the weapon and take care the weapon does not outline itself. Loose pockets are better than tight pockets in this regard. I also recommend one inspect the weapon every day to ensure it remains free from lint and debris.
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What kind of federal job requires you to qualify every month, 12 times a year, and then lets you shoot 500 per qualification. And then some people shooting 50000 round per year, I guess this required new weapon every year as well. I wish my agency would provide me with this much trigger time. I was just wondering?
I have been following your entries on Modern Survival for a while now. You have given readers valuable information due, I’m sure to your accomplished background. I will, however, take exception to your comments to the post about drawing in 1.5 seconds. The man was also making a good point about continuing to “train” with your weapon(handgun) so one could become “fast and smooth”. As a tactical trainer and one with a solid weapons background, I tend to push situational awareness and training as a good basis for a good defense. Additionally, your comment about a 500 round qualification, confirms that you were working for the feds! And if you shot 50K rounds a year, you must have been on a competitive shooting team, a “teams” member, or more federal waste. And please continue to offer your knowledge and experiences. Sharing, is the purest form of teaching! Keep it up!
greg ” prepare in leisure, survive in haste”
The 1.5 second draw is a realistic time developed in response to the Tueller drill. In the Tueller drill, the average trained police officer, with knowledge that he was going to be attacked and NOT having a startle factor needed at minimum 1.5 seconds to deal with a threat with a knife or stick coming from 21 feet. Because the average guy could cover 21 feet in 1.2 seconds. This is taught on the surviving edge weapons video. It is taught by Ayoob and by Sanow. You of all people know that you simply cannot see everything and situational alertness is not perfect. If it was, none of you feds would ever get shot. Kind of like the Miami mad minute shoot out. Seems that fbi hrt got shot up pretty bad. I’d like to see the speed of draw of your .22 mag from a pocket . I’ve seen a few people use it, I used it myself as a deep cover back up. It is not anything like fast. Oh I’ve been in law enforcement 26 years in several agencies, in three states. I’ve also trained with gunsite instructors and 1990 world champion Armondo Valdez in the City of Miami academy. He taught the 1.5 second draw and 21 foot rule.
Here is the Panhandle Rancher’s response to the first comment –
FIRST COMMENT –
“What kind of federal job requires you to qualify every month, 12 times a year, and then lets you shoot 500 per qualification. And then some people shooting 50000 round per year, I guess this required new weapon every year as well. I wish my agency would provide me with this much trigger time. I was just wondering?”
PH Rancher’s Response:
Good question. Ammunition is expensive and many administrators look at range time as being and expensive waste of fiscal and personnel resources. Many LEOs even some federal, are horrible shots due to restrictive ammunition and weapon budgets.
First tier SF shoot quite a bit (Delta, SEALs), likewise the HRT. Other federal agent positions at Quantico may shoot that much. FBI ranges at Quantico have Dempsey dumpsters to collect the day’s brass. And yes, about 50,000 rounds will kill most pistols. In fact, that is a longevity standard for some first tier groups.
Before I retired, monthly qualification was watered down to quarterly but we still shot about 500 rounds. The organization I was with provided unlimited ammunition for use on personal time; the challenge was in finding time.
I recommend COLD ZERO by Christopher Whitcomb for it’s first person insight into the HRT qualifications.
I personally would be a little wary of the High Standard derringer. The firing pin on mine broke early on but was replaced by H-S (shows how long ago) but I have never trusted it since. So I guess my question is ; Do you fire the H-S on a regular basis and if so have you had any problems with it? Thanks