Group attacks by urban youth…..

Group attacks by urban youth.  The ultimate conundrum.

by Solomon Shorter


Dateline Chicago: Chicago police are examining a video and interviewing witnesses to try to find out who was among a gang of young people who attacked and stabbed a 25-year-old man in the Lakeview neighborhood late Sunday.

Dateline Dallas:  “In the process of them walking out, tried to stop a student with a lot of things in his hands and when I tried to do that, he shoved me out into the parking lot and swung at me,” Thomas said.

Thomas then says several men then pulled him to the ground and started kicking and punching him.

“I was terrified,” he said. “At first, I thought I would be able to get back into the store, and once they got me on the ground, I thought they were going to kill me.”

Thomas suffered cuts on his nose, eyes and lip. He still has a bruised rib and bicep. He told us  his injuries would have been worse if two girls hadn’t stepped in.

“I’m very grateful for that,” said Thomas.  “If it wasn’t for them, I could have lost my life.”


The Sad Truth:

What I’m going to tell you will strike some people as wrong.  It will also strike some as stereotyping and many will frown at the implications.

The sad truth is this.  If you see a group of young people in their teens and twenties then your best bet is to avoid them like a plague.  The examples above are just a couple that were found doing an extremely simple Google search.  The reality is that we’re seeing this more and more.

Avoidance is your best bet.  No matter what your skill level.  No matter how well armed you are.  No matter how in shape you are, you can’t handle an attack by multiple attackers without expecting to sustain damage yourself.  If you can walk away, take a different route…hell…even turn, around then that should be your first course of action.

But what if avoidance isn’t possible?  This is where it gets sketchy.  I’ve attempted to research how the top trainers today are instructing their students (I’m talking martial artist, knife guys and gun guys) on dealing with attacks from multiple attackers and its almost non-existant.

Marine Corps Martial Arts teaches dealing with attacks from two, at most three attackers and it basically comes down to being aggressive and prioritizing your attack.

That’s for the battlefield.  What about for the streets when you’re out to catch dinner and a movie with a loved one?

My advice, if you can’t avoid it, is to beat the escalation curve.  You have to get aggressive, while acting totally defensive.

At the first sign of hostility from the group you need to be ready to respond with deadly force.  Urban Youth are now doing what they call the “Knock out game”…you win if you are

able to sucker punch an unsuspecting person with the results of them losing consciousness.

Stay alert, stay alive and expect these conditions to persist. 

Last but not least.  If you are confronted with this no win situation you should expect to engage at least two of the group with deadly force…maybe three or more if the group is large enough.  That’s why I am not a fan of the mini-9mm’s like the Smith and Wesson Shield.


They don’t hold enough rounds to make it through an engagement  and that’s if everything goes right!  A standard capacity 15 round magazine in 9mm should be your baseline and even with that I would highly recommend you carry a spare magazine.

We live in lethal times.  Urban centers are inherently dangerous and with some of the new trends that are being seen by law enforcement, those dangers are going to increase.  Police should be stopping large groups of youth on sight but political correctness is preventing that.  You know and I know what large groups mean.  Someone will be assaulted.  Someone might be raped.  Someone might be killed.  Don’t let that someone be you.


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  1. I think that while this seems to be an epidemic if we look at the locations and times of these attacks they happen in geographically widespread yet similar situations. In terms of location they are either in fairly rough to iffy areas and places where “urban youths” gather like malls, concerts, etc. In terms of time they seem to be about half late at night (10pm or later) and half randomly.

    So if you do not live in or travel to rough urban areas and stay out of places “urban youths” congregate in general and especially in the evening the odds of never encountering this are high. You don’t hear about this stuff in rural or small town anywhere.

    As to defense unless you are a legit professional fighter, or maybe the scariest heavyweight powerlifting bad mama jamma our there hand to hand won’t work. Avoiding the situation, which I do not think is that hard, is the best option.

    As to firearms I like full sized handguns. However they have a way of getting left places. My only concern there is that people often buy them with good intentions then leave them at home or in the car. On the other hand a baby Glock/ M&P or a shield might actually get carried. Also they hold more bullets and reload faster than a snubby .38. Bottom line carry the biggest gun you can shoot well and YOU WILL ACTUALLY CARRY ALL THE TIME!

  2. sorry gents. i was looking at this from a perspective that i haven’t seen a discussion on how to handle it by the major firearms or martial arts trainers.

    they cover all kinds of modified shooting positions, reaction drills from cars etc..but they haven’t covered reacting to a large unruly group. thats what i was trying to get at.

  3. Chicago , yes in that sh*# hole and many other places I can see that going down. BUT, the way I see it is the 1st thing you are doing wrong is living someplace like that. Get the F%&* out. Things are not all roses in my area but The odds are here seeing 10-15 kids in one place out on the street there is a car wash going on. Did I carry? hell yes . Why because one of your pices of s$%& might have gotten lost and driving through town. BUT again if thing are that bad in your head or town GTFO.
    keep on keeping on.

  4. This is nothing new. St. Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, Miami, Cincinnati, LA, etc; this sort of thing has been happening since the 70’s. Don’t buy into the hype that it is new and a sign of a dissolving ROL. As in other cases, we have a more immediate media cycle that broadcasts issues of a shock nature more effectively than ever before. I guarantee that if you were in East St. Louis, IL, 25 years ago, and didn’t have an affiliation with a local group, you’d be beaten on site regardless of your race or sex.

    What is new, and is a direct result of texting, twitter and immediate communications, is “flash robberies”. A group will arrive, seemingly at random, and overwhelm a store with sheer numbers and loot it, then run off. .

    It’s been bad for a long time, people. Certain parties (not you, Rourke) have figured out how to magnify issues to their advantage and feed perceptions. First rule of survival? Don’t loose your head.

    Keep your head down and powder dry. – The Deacon

  5. I think it all depends on the situation; a Katrina-level aftermath event would be different from an LA Riot event (less hard cover available post-Katrina). Multiple aggressors on single or encumbered target is a scenario where unless you have the advantage of firepower, only speed and cover will get you through. Other potential variables are knowledge of the environment, sympathizers of the “mob” or supporters of the target, vehicle availability and so on.

    I used to deliver auto parts into East St. Louis. White kid in a white panel van. Crank up a cassette of bag pipe tunes, roll down the windows, and always be first in the line up at a stop light. Most folks won’t mess with you if they think you are insane.

    I don’t think you’ll find much formal instruction on dealing with these types of scenarios. Your best bet is to talk to folks who have been in them, with a focus on civil unrest post natural disaster. Also use google search terms like “group think” and “mob think”. Common wisdom is to take out the leader/instigator early on, before the entire mob is feeding off its own rage. Other than that, revert to evade and escape and always maintain situational awareness.

    Keep your head down and powder dry. – The Deacon

  6. I believe my 1911A1 .45 ACP cocked and losked with 1 in the chamber and 14 in the magazine and 2 extra mags are just what the Dr. ordered for giving hot lead injections. Lived in Chicago 7 years and have seen this in Lincoln Park at the south end on a Sunday afternoon in broad daylight. Ugly scene but nothing I and my friend could against 25 or so street animals but watch and move on. Shameful, but only a gun would have been of any help.

    Only the rich and the connected can carry in Chi town, as you well know. The common people suffer the most from the idiotic laws they have, especially those good poor people who live in bad areas and can’t earn enough to get out.

    On the other hand, white as I am, I’ve been at 55th and King at 2am on a Sat night after a blues club outing and nobody bothered me. Probably thought I was a cop, and as a construction laborer I was as hard as concrete,didn’t take crap off anybody, and my body language showed it. Now I’m 66, 40 years later, and I won’t palaver-just shoot and bug out.

    Use Col. Coopers 4 colors rules and as much avoidance as possible and if not possible then do whatever you must. I carry everywhere. Yes, this rig is heavy but the gun and ammo have proven themselves for over 100 years. I like Keith and Cooper: large caliber, lots of ammo, and big holes that take the steam out of just about any human that ever lived. Leave the pea shooters at home–large cities are jungles where 100 paces can put you in mortal danger, and you need substantial fire power to secure your zone.

    Semper Fi Semper Vigilans

  7. Violence of Action. Sadly, young people, and it is largely not their fault,have been taught atheism, and with it that there is no intrinsic right or wrong, since their is no right or wrong (law) giver. They have been taught even to ignore the pangs of natural law in their hearts and so they are very dangerous because they are very unpredictable. To most young people all they know is violence–the “good kids” are good because they are afraid of violence in the form of laws and rules, not for the sake of goodness. And likewise, the bad are bad because they have come to be unafraid to use violence, even in the threat of government sponsored violence.

    Thus they only strategy that will work with most young people is violence. You can talk till you are blue in the face while they are ready to pounce but only violence of action will convince them that you are not worth the effort.

  8. The danger is not limited to inner cities. I got stuck in YouTube a few weeks ago, watching groups of violent kids at state fairs, carnivals and the likes in Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota and other Mid Western farm states. We had similar trouble (near riot) at a local carnival in rural Pennsylvania a few years ago. I carry everywhere, even church. So does my wife. I have additional weapons in my vehicle, should the situation go beyond the control of one or two handguns. If you use deadly force defending yourself and or loved ones, be prepared for the adverse reaction. Eric Holder would not prosecute Black Panthers threatening voters, but he’ll damn sure have the FBI on any white person’s back for shooting attacking black kids. I joined the USCCA. Membership provides insurance for legal fees if you shoot someone. They even give contact information for pro-2nd Amendment lawyers.

  9. If the large group can stand & fight due to the fact that they can barely catch their breath & Seeing isn’t an opion thru watery burning eyes ! (i.e.) there’re in the FETAL POSITION & chocking on a 1 pound can of 3-4,000,000 SHU pepper spray ! there is plenty of time to walk the other way & never get short of breath ! Trust me I’ve been using it for the last 10 yrs. as a High Risk Security Enforcement Officer here in L.A.,Calif. It’s dropped drunk’s, & Addictics, & Gang members in their track’s. & then all we had to do is handcuff them & wait for the Local P.D. to pick up the GARBAGE ! So to speak ! But to each their own ! 1st Non-Lethal force, 2nd. DROP them in a POOL of their OWN BLOOD with what ever force is necessary to make sure that you survive. I would suggest that everyone that fears getting stomped by Urban Gang Violence go & take a Certified TACTICAL WEAPONS TRAINING CLASS taught by TACTICAL POLICE / or Retired SWAT Officers. & Don’t forget the GOLDEN RULE ” ALWAY’S DOUBLE TAP THE PERP, 1 in the CHEST & 1 in the HEAD ! because he might be wearing Body-Armour !

  10. Good post. I recommend a .45acp such as the Sig P220 or a 1911 series for sheer knock down power without excess penetration. .357 magnums are wonderful but in an urban setting I always worried about punching through the target and then killing an innocent tax payer.

    In a recent letter to this blog, I discussed a power off situation and commented that had the groups of older men I encountered included a mix of younger men, I would have been more worried. If the mix included teenage black males I would have been really worried. This is not meant as a racial comment. It is a fact as represented by FBI statistics.

    Panhandle Rancher

  11. I keep bear mace as my favorite crowd pleaser. If you can’t get any, a canister of wasp nest spray or a dollar spray bottle filled with lye or battery acid. Most of all, trust your instincts when you see a suspicous assembly. Watch their facial expressions. They will look hostile – or like predators playing with their next meal. A poker face means they are about to attack. Back up against a wall and break out you wasting material. They lose their anonymity if you shoot or burn one of them; in the latter case they’ll run for a water source. They will otherwise kill you like an antelope if they bring you down.

  12. Cooper said don’t go places where they do not allow a gun..

    Vic says.. don’t live or go to places including states where they allow mobs.

    Don’t work where they are anywhere within 300 miles.

    Don’t live where they are anywhere within 500 miles.

    Don’t go to Public Sporting Events.

    Don’t go to Rock Concerts.

    Don’t get lost… run out of gas.. take a shortcut thru some crap community (just this one time).

    Even if your Ricky Ranger Bobby Bad A$$ have a Vulcan in your trunk .. you lose when those sacks of cr&p arrive.. If you survive you lose because everyone will bemoan the innocent misunderstood youth injury, loss of life.

    There was an old retired sailor.. His wife passed away and he was alone.. He lived peaceably for 30 years in the same house in the same neighborhood. He was meticulous about his yard which was on a corner and “Youths” used to cut thru it.. He put up signs.. he talked to the parents.. he contacted the police and filed complaints.. all to no avail.. One day a little 15 year old boy cut thru his yard.. When he confronted the misguided youth he was told to go fornicate himself.. So the next time the punk did the same thing the Sailor put a rifle or shotgun round thru the kids chest(I forget).. (No this was not the movie it was a portion of where that movie found it’s inspiration).

    Guess where the Retired GI now lives? That’s right he was sentenced to life in prison. Lost his home, his rifle his freedom. (Had I been the Coroner I would have listed the cause of death as Suicide and left it at that.)

    Like I said where ever these feral packs of human excrement live and play..
    DON’t go there.. Don’t live there, Don’t visit.

    Those feral packs are tools of those in power.. Used to frighten sheep into surrendering the teeth of the Sheepdogs in their midst.. and the system jealously protects such useful predators..

    Survival Prep requires avoidance of problems as a first priority..

    We prepare so we are not cold, hungry, without shelter or security…

    If we are into our Survival Beans, Bullets and Band Aids.. we are already in trouble right?

    The “Youth Threat” is one there is little excuse not to avoid.

    If you live anywhere near it.. Move Now.


  13. “I keep bear mace as my favorite crowd pleaser. If you can’t get any, a canister of wasp nest spray or a dollar spray bottle filled with lye or battery acid.”

    This is the kind of advice no one needs.

    Understand this.. everything the well meaning fella listed if used against people falls under the definition of a chemical weapon improvised or not.. 100% illegal to possess or use in that manner anywhere anytime.

    “I keep bear mace as my favorite crowd pleaser.” that statement has just demonstrated intent.. Which makes the use of Bear Spray by that person also criminal. If you carry Bear Spray and do not have some reasonable explanation as to why you have it on you/with you.. You will be prosecuted even if you survive the incident.. No matter how justified and reasonable it appears to rationale people.

    We are not dealing with rational people in our Judicial System anymore are we?

    Just ask Mr Zimmerman..


  14. Vic, I have to side with the advice of vote with your feet. But in the case of a gang assault all bets are off. Yes, you’ll be prosecuted and perhaps made an example out of – but not charged with murder: That was my point. needless to say you’re taking your chances no matter what.

  15. “But in the case of a gang assault all bets are off. ”


    I simply do not want to see a Prepper get arrested and/or have their supplies seized for something stupid. Do not want to see them prosecuted for openly expressing their intentions (which provides evidence of premeditation) in advance of an event… Which is crazy because the whole purpose of training and preparation is so that one may in advance solve for “X” deal successfully during a crisis. We are living in some dreadful times and there is a willingness to prosecute innocents for technical violations of the law ahead of actual criminals.
    Criminals who like I said.. serve the interests of the elite.


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