Response to recent comment: Are you truly prepared use deadly force after SHTF?

A comment left regarding my recent post on Building a Survival Battery really got to me.

 

Here is what Lynn wrote:

“While I appreciate this knowledge, it makes me cringe. I get that in a life or death situation, you need to be prepared. I know that if someone was going to overtake my home and/or cause harm to us, I would shoot to mean it- no second guessing. BUT, I can say that now, not in that situation. What my fear is, that I may hesitate that split second to let my brain tell me that they don’t just want something to eat or some material thing- they mean harm at no cost. It isn’t war here in this country. See? When Katrina hit, it was a tragedy, no doubt, but as bad as it got, I don’t remember hearing one person shot another over food or looting. In this country, while I absolutely believe we need to be prepared, our tragedies, in this current time have been for a finite period of time- even if we lived in horrible conditions for a year or more, would I be ready to kill? When all is said and done, will my children be orphans because their mother shot someone? Thoughts?”

 

Lynn brings up an excellent point and I appreciate her honesty. Luckily, I have never had to use deadly force to defend myself or my family. Unless someone has been in that situation there is no 100% way to know exactly how you would react. Never serving in the military I do not have the training that would have benefited me for that situation. Additionally – I have never served in law enforcement either.

 

I guess I am getting at the fact that I am likely NOT qualified to truly comment and answer Lynn’s question. I can ponder. I can guess. I can also hypothesize. I can tell Lynn that I have thought about these types of things many, many times. I have run scenarios through my head and used mental visualization to “see” these situations and how I would react. I have seeked out training on tactical weapons use and seeked out knowledge to know justifiable shooting laws in a normal, everyday life when laws mean something. I can tell Lynn that I love my wife and my children and if anyone tried to hurt them I feel deep, deep down within my soul that I would do everything in my power to stop it.

 

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Regarding Katrina it is difficult to tell what is real and what is rumor as to what happened after the storm hit. I have heard of murders, lootings, rapes, and general violence by thugs against the innocent.

 

So Lynn – this may not be the answer you were looking for but it is what I have to offer right now.

 

Would love to hear from readers on this one.

 

Take care and thanks Lynn.

 

Rourke


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49 Comments

  1. A little background on me, I am retired from the Army after 22 years in the infantry. I have been deployed to Iraq and Bosnia and will say that each time was different. Additionally, I am also a law enforcement academy graduate, however, due to military commitments I never became a law enforcement officer. I have had to use deadly force under combat conditions and the fact is this; training takes over, however, mindset is the key. While deployed in Iraq I had more than enough ammo and all the sexy gadgets to make my job easier and survival more likely, again the mindset is the key. I carried ONE extra round of 5.56 in my right pocket in the extreme case that I were in a firefight and ran out of ammunition and the possibility of losing or being captured. I watched and had my soldiers watch the brutal beheading of Nicolas Berg back in 2004 and I made up my mind that I would not be in that situation, more for my wife and family than anything else. Again, the bottom line is that you must determine in you mind that you will defend you and your family if you feel that your safety is in jeapordy. I can only speak from my experience and this is from years of infantry training and combat deployments.
    Respectfully,
    A retired Airborne Infantry soldier

  2. Lynn,
    While I appreciate your thoughts on this matter I felt the need to reply. As a Christian father and husband I went through the aftermath of Katrina and I will tell you the media on covered a very small part of the deadly situations that took place.
    I was trained in survival in the USAF and I still have many friends and associates that are still serving in the armed forces and law enforcement. One of my friends ( a Major in the Army ) had just come back from his third tour in Afghanistan and his unit wound up on patrol at the foot of Canal St. in New Orleans just after the storm.
    I can tell you that looting, rape and murder were in fact happening all over the city while the police were seizing guns from law abiding citizens until the protests became too loud.
    Things were not too bad across lake ponchatrain because signs were posted “You Loot and We Shoot” although theft and other crimes still happened to a much lesser degree.
    In the situation that we face in the near future there is no doubt that you could very well be faced with this very difficult decision and to delay even a second could cost you your life and your children’s too. I suggest that you pray about this matter and get your mind made up if you will become a survivor or not.
    God Bless and Good Luck

  3. First of all I am a Christian and yes, I will not hesitate to defend our lives. I will kill if I have to protect my myself, my wife or my family. I have our survival battery ready….our guns, ammo, cleaning and maintenance supplies. I have trained my wife on the use of all of these. I have started buying and putting aside food,water & first aid survival supplies when I buy our weekly groceries. I have our bug out bags ready in case we should have to leave our house in case of any disaster.

    However, my wife doesn’t feel that she could kill anyone in any situation. I have bought a few books relating to prepping and survival and encouraged her to read them. However, she would rather not. I have pointed out to her that we should be prepared to survive in case of any disaster and that included defending ourselves as well as having food, water and first aid supplies.

    She is just not interested in any of this. What should I do to try to convince her? The bible tells us that there will come a day when a man will not be able to buy or sell unless he has the mark of the beast. I am not going to take the mark of the beast. If I am still here when that day comes and it is comming I believe that God would want me to have the supplies I will need to survive until he takes me home.

  4. When SHTF happens you do not worry about man made laws as no one will enforce them but you. As a Veteran I say shoot and ask questions later. It is hard for dead people to testify against you. It is your job to take care of your fanily first. I am not going to let someone leave to tell about my bugout spot that they stumbled across. Remenber family first.

  5. Lynn & Rourke

    I was on the ground about 3 days after Katrina…Not only were we shot at during our “recovery” efforts and during real rescues, there were homicide(s) within the area. Areas and buildings had to be cleared before we could or would send teams into the areas. I have never had to use deadly force, (thank God), BUT thats not to say I have never had a weapon in hand and pointed ready to use. Still could I? WEll…I would like you, tend to believe I would due to my training. Would it bother me? ABSOLUTLY. Hhowever, you never know how you will act till the SHTF. You WILL fight like you train. It has been proven time and time again. I have seen it or should I say the results of it. TRUST me..it is a real statement of fact.

    I will say this..as long as we have the so called “news agencys” out there fighting for “ratings” the news will be bias and fabrocated in order to make these ratings high. There were no “bodys” stacked like “cord wood” on levies that I saw..there was looting; many individuals from emergency service agencys failed to report to duty in order to protect their family AND, there were those who chose to loot and desert themselves.

    Call it a disaster, TEOTWAWKI, whatever..we will act and survive the way we train. Hopefully we can respond to others as we were taught by our parents. But never the less, mothers, fathersbrothers and sisters will pass protecting their NOK and what they feel as important. Thats in human nature and the response to a threat can and will do many strange things.

    Thinking ahead..check into Critical Incident Stress Debriefing Teams or training. Called CISD in short, this is a great training program and anyone on a Team/Group that responds to “critical incidents” should have it.

    Great question and thoughts guys n gals. That’s my $.02 worth. BE SAFE

  6. How does the thought of living in a concentration camp much like the Japanese did during WWII, or the people living in Germany of every ethnic origin during the same period? Lots of exemplars on Youtube. If you can contemplate the visual and think it not so bad then you don’t need any of those survival implements. If you can contemplate the thought of your whole family being executed for any reason such as confiscation of food, weapons, or anything they may want, and think it not so bad then you don’t need to pay attention to any warnings to be prepared. But you had better be compliant when they come for you or your punishment will be more severe rather than less. If you think these scenarios are unlikely to happen, then think again. Trust no one, suspect everyone until they prove their value to you. I recommend the Molon Labe paperback by Boston T. Party and the Jericho series DVDs of a few years ago, still available on Amazon, for exploring the various scenarios. Whatever decision anyone makes stick to it and live it decisively because that is all you have.

  7. I appreciate what Lynn had to say: I honestly don’t know if I could shoot another person. However, I do have a .38 and a 20 gauge shot gun loaded at all times…

    I’m inclined toward prevention. Good security locks, a dog, a warning round. I just purchased some “quarantine” signs with that thought in mind. Perhaps a thug would hesitate and move on to the next place.

    Scared enough, I could probably pull the trigger…

    Bev

  8. I have comtemplated the same question myself. Would I have the reaction to shoot someone who is trying to harm or steal from me in a WROL situation. My initial thought was I didnt want to kill anyone and figured I would only have paintball guns in my house, lol. Then I came to the obvious realization that paintball would not even effectively neutralize a treat. So a firearm will be necessary, especially if the offender has a gun themselves.

    Having said that, I then wondered if I could actually shoot an attacker or theif in a moment of surprise or un-readiness. Would I fight or flight? After multiple mental senarios and complex situation…A simple answer kept coming up. Its is that I would ultimately protect my family, myself, and my property, in that order.

    I understand that “what ifs” and “they might” come into play while your mind is playing differnent situations out. But what helps me is that if Anyone has decided to delibrately attack or steal from me, they have already made up their mind that they could possibly not walk away from it.
    They have made a choice and you have to also when the time comes. But if you commit to shooting ahead of time during certain events (the person is in your home) then you will likely not be harmed.

    Making the choice ahead of time and keeping it simple could save your life.

  9. In the Northern Rockies Ecosystem, we have elk, deer and moose – and hunting seasons. With game comes predators and we have had Grizzly reintroduction along with Canadian wolf introduction. The grizzlies are still on the the ‘protected species’ list and illegal to kill. The bears have learned that when they hear gunshot, there is an easy meal. Several times hunters have been field dressing their harvest when a grizzly shows up. The bear sees the hunter as competition and attacks him. The hunter sees the bear as ‘endangered’, with a huge fine and potential prison time so he hesitates to defend himself and ends up with a death sentence. There are similar examples with wolves, cougars and bobcats when people encounter them without a ‘permission’ slip (a hunting license). In a nutshell, these men were more afraid of the government than dying, the fear that should be reserved for God.
    2 Peter 2:12 tells us that some people are creatures of instinct or natural brute beasts. Our society has been slowly crumbling for 40+ years and the deterioration is accelerating. Before the fan gets turned on high, we need to recognize that not everybody thinks the way we do. Some people have NO regard for human life and are strictly out to serve themselves if not actually enjoying others suffering. Some of those people wear suits and ties – read “Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go To Work” by Paul Babiak and Robert Hare. When these people can’t feed off of you financially, what will they do? When the government is unable to pay the mobs with social programs to remain peaceful, what will they do?
    I believe there is more to getting your head ready than trying to convince yourself it’s OK to shoot someone. We need to truly, in our hearts, understand reality – there IS a ‘they’ and a ‘we’. ‘They’ have convinced ‘us’ that killing them is bad while they devour us. Take a lesson from nature.
    G. Gordon Liddy said, “Be sure he is dead so there’s only one side of the story”.

  10. I feel that Lynn’s assessment of what transpired in New Orleans in 2005 is wrong. Hurricane Katrina brought out the worst in both society and the government. Not only were there looting and violence on an unprecedented scale, there were instances where the police actually tried to disarm the law abiding citizens as they protected their homes and property. As I see it, the TEOTWAWKI that we are preparing for IS a life and death situation. Even the neighbors that you are friendly with now, are only a few meals away from committing heinous acts to provide for their families. Most of humanity cracks under this type of pressure. The Twighlight Zone made several episodes on this subject. They are stuck in my mind for decades. I believe that we’ll know the scope of the disaster or crisis, and act accordingly. If we have a 3 day power outage, or a crisis/disaster that does not leave a permanent scar on the nation, then it is unlikely that we’ll be fending off hordes of looters. But, if we go through the economic collapse that I envision, there will be roving gangs that will kill you for your food. Most folks do not relish on the thought of killing someone. They may doubt that they can actually take another life. But, when society breaks down, or the situation becomes dire, people have been known to change their mind quickly. Especially, when their family is in danger. Personally, I have experience with deadly force situations from a career in the military. Consequently, I have no doubt how I will react. When the long term crisis comes, in fairness to any innocent strangers passing by my property, I will post signs. I’ll warn any trespassers that I will use deadly force to protect my family and our possessions. If they ignore the warning, then they’ll have to deal with the consequences (and the Ruger/ Mossberg duo). I would recommend that anyone in the “Prepping” community be very wary of strangers who “just want something to eat”.

  11. I am perfectly capable and would/will defend myself and/or my family with whatever level of protection that is necessary to keep me/us safe. I have been in my home when an escaped, convicted felon tried to kick down my front door. I called the police and waited on the other side of my bolted door with my firearm ready to shoot in defense of my life. I have seen violent crime on the rise from car hijackings at the neighborhood gas station to home invasions in nearby subdivisions. I can tell you that you may not have to wait until the SHTF to have to defend yourself and your loved ones. Trying to make up your mind when some drugged up wanna be gansta is trying to kick down your door is TOO LATE. If you are unsure of your ability to protect yourself with the required force, then you had better build yourself a safe room and drill your family to get to it at the first sign of trouble. Also, be aware that if you stock supplies for survival and are not willing or able to defend them, then you will likely lose them when things get bad. I go to the range frequently and have made up my mind that I am responsible for the safety of myself and my family, no one else. I am a 50+ year old wife and mother and I am willing and able to take the life/lives of those who are of the mindset to take my life, the lives of my family or the provisions that I have accumulated to ensure our longtime survival if/when the need arises.

  12. We live in SW Mississippi where a lot of the people from NO came after Katrina. I live in a rural area and we had a low rider car with young men driving very slowly through our neighborhood casing the area. Since we had no electricity for 2 weeks everyone was outside my husband and father retrieved their rifles. We knew the road was closed below our house and they would be back. The rifles were in full view when they came back. We found out they also drove past some of our friends on neighboring roads and received the same welcome. We never saw them again. Most of the men and women in our area hunt. There were killings and rape in NO and surrounding areas but the media avoided telling that story! The towns around us had an increase in violence and crime even though we had shelters set up and provided food and necessities.
    Weeks later the shelters had to run people out because they didn’t want to go to te places government provided because they would have to do their own cleaning and cooking and use their own food stamps (their words).

  13. Dear Rourke and Lynn,
    Unfortunately, I have learned something recently that maybe everyone else already knew. There are groups of “preppers” out there whose idea of being prepared is frequent target shooting practice and caches of ammunition and guns. They are not investing in educating themselves on how to grow a garden, or purifying water or storing food. Rather their preps are all about how, when and from whom will they loot. It is a sad fact but its important not to be niave. I believe this group of “criminal preppers” are waiting for the next event, even if it is a bad hurricane, just to practice their “skills”. I don’t think the common “prepper” will have the skills or the “heart” to compete hand to hand and the best thing we can do to prepare is to keep them out of our homes. I would like to see more information on this topic. How can the common prepper secure his/her property?

  14. unfortunately, i have been in a situation to have to defend my family many years ago. i lived in the country at the end of a dirt road and had someone try to come out and take my stepkids. long story and too much to go into now. my 12 year old son went into the girls bedroom with a .22 and guarded the stepkids and my 3 year old. that haunts me to this day that i had to put my son in that situation. i told him not to let even me in unless he knew in his gut it was okay and to shoot if necessary. i went out with my 20 guage shotgun and waited for this crazy man. he pulled up to my driveway and gunned the engine like he was going to run me down. in that instant i made the decision to shoot and he saw me aim the gun. he was able to turn the truck around so i fired and shot the tailgate as he escaped. luckily, the deputy was on his way and intercepted the man and arrested him. i went back inside with my kids and waited for my husband to return from his post down another road. he came running when he heard the shotgun blast. other neighbors were out looking for this man as well so i had plenty of support.

    i have never been a violent person and the only person i ever hit was my ex-husband after he hit me first. thats why he is my ex. after this incident, i learned to carry a shotgun with me on the land and a handgun in the car whenever i left the house with the kids. i will never got over the idea that i almost killed someone, no matter how bad they were, and that my kids were traumatized so much by this event. i was younger when that happened but i did not hesitate because i knew what could happen to my kids if this man got by me and got into the house. my son may have been able to shoot him but then he would have grown up with the trauma of killing someone and i could not let that happen.

    we can think and think and plan and plan on what we would do but we never really know until the time comes. i had never pointed a gun at another person and, as i said, i was never a violent person before this incident. that night taught me that i might be a little country girly girl but i was able to stand up and protect my family as well as anybody else. i hate that this happened but i am also proud of my son and myself for what we were able to do.

    i hope to never see this kind of violence again and i hope no one else every has to go through anything like this, but life happens and our world today has become much more violent and non-caring. becoming familiar with a firearm that you are comfortable with is really important. that alone will help tremendously when and if the times comes to make that decision.

    if this can help anyone, i am very happy. we all must make our own split second decisions and i pray for everyones safety.

    thanks,
    maggi

  15. From experience, I can say that literally we are at war here in several ways, and things can go very bad very quickly, without a major catastrophe to intiate it.

    The more appropriate question you must ask now is would my children be orphans, sex slaves, or just plain dead because their mother didn’t shoot someone. It is not just your right, but as a parent your responsibility to defend yourself and your family from material threats, and to be prepared to do so. You do not have the luxury to second guess whether the threat is limited or imminent. You must assume that any attempt to invade your home and/or threaten you or your children is intended as grave harm, and act accordingly. Anything less is irresponsible.

  16. I read an interesting survey: This survey said that 80% of women even with a gun would never shoot someone and over 50 % of men wouldn’t. Criminals know this.
    I never had to shoot some to survive, but I know I could. One has to know what he would do if and when the time comes. I have spent a lot of time and money in learning how to use guns properly.Most people, even if they have guns, don’t know how to use them. For an untrained person a gun could be your worst enemy.

  17. Lynn/Rourke, I believe this is a topic that deserves a lot of personal research and then once you are educated, even more personal soul searching. Some people say to themselves, I couldn’t let anything happen to my family and will do whatever it takes to protect them, NO MATTER THE PERSONAL COST. Others think that they couldn’t point a butter knife at anyone in anger no matter what the reason.
    If you are a person that says to yourself, I WILL protect my family, you need to start preparing to do that now by getting training. Armed with nothing but good intentions, you being armed will be as dangerous (if not more so) to yourself and your loved ones as the actual threat. This should be part of your research. Notice I didn’t say “by buying a gun” or other weapon. Once you get some training, you can make an informed decision about what to buy to fit yourself and your situation.
    Most people that think of themselves as preppers, have also made the decision to protect themselves and their preparations. I believe that’s why Rourke & so many of us talk about firearms without a preamble as to why they might be needed.
    For me, many of the YouTube philosophy videos by Nutnfancy are foundational and should be included in your research.
    Rourke, please don’t think that military training is the be all end all and that you missed out on a lot by not serving. I was an Air Force firearms instructor. Whenever we had guns out of the vault we were required to have people armed with pistols. Yet we had zero tactical training. The only training we had was on how to handle & shoot our firearms. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVED my job, but I also came to the conclusion that a couple of racks of M-16’s weren’t worth my life.
    If you want to know why it’s important to get training, my career field was born out of a disaster during the Korean war. An Air Force base was over run, but then was recaptured by us before they had a chance to loot the bodies. What we found of the Air Force personnel’s attempt at defense was appalling. Guns that were rusted closed. Guns that a person was trying to put the wrong ammunition in. Guns that had the wrong magazines. Guns with the right magazines but in backwards or upside-down. The calvary was coming, but because they didn’t have any training or maintenance, they could hold out even a few minutes.

  18. Lynn, and Rourke, I do not know what I might do if my family were threatened.I hope I would have the courage to pull the trigger because if I do not
    then children may see their Mother raped before their eyes and then shot.( or having their food stolen and then then will starve)I know that training helps us all with every situation. I have taken first aid and ambulance training and it has helped me respond as opposed to reacting to victims of injury.
    I know a person who was raped during Katrina . I know people were shot. I saw it on live television.( looter killing another person)
    I tend to want to believe that others see the world as I do and that compassion is the most important virtue. I have learned ( I am now a senior a mother
    and a Grandma)I have learned that some people for various reasons are mean and selfish and cruel and do not have any victim empathy for those they hurt or kill) When my husband and I were doing wilderness camping many years ago two men hassled us and
    tried to enter our tent. We had a pistol and told them to leave or we would shoot- my husband waited and then fired (not at then but near them) They ran. We contacted the Conservation officer.They were arrested.They had been robbing and hassling others for long while.
    I was raped at gun point as a young women . Had I had better training with self defense and a weapon I might not have had to endure that crime.Years later a young man jumped on me and tried- believe me he got a surprise-my being in exc shape ad being able to fight him off until help arrived saved me.
    I believe that MOST people are good and kind but starvation and addiction and other factors can cause people to do horrible acts that they normally would not do. Keep prepping and pray . Arlene

    PS I went on to become a Chaplain and therapist and ended up bein able to even counsel rapists. If we use our pain for gain we all grow.

  19. I can appreciate Lynn’s feelings, my own are if some one forceably breaks into your domicile they mean to use bodily harm. I was in the Miami area with the military after Hurricane Andrew and on a trip to Florida Ciyy to repair a broken vehicle was tld that looters were being shot at night and marked as looters, Early moning searches and pickup of the bodies was performed by local authorities and put into a cold storage locker the had it’s own generator. I would advise Lynn to contact a nearby gun club and find if they have any NRA courses in basic pistol, home defence personal protection, and the don’t be a victem which is geared towards women and also shows non lethal defences. John

  20. I have trained military and police,I spent time in war torn countries and i come to realize that anyone who has put me in a position to do harm to them has taken it upon them selfs, and anyone in the future who does the same only forces me to do what i would not normaly do, so that takes the responcabilty and places it upon them and releases me from living my life worring what if? or did i do the right thing? THE ANSWERE IS YES.

  21. Have to disagree with OP. After Katrina there were shootings. For much less than food or water. Do a wiki on “Danziger Bridge shootings “. Performed by public servants, I guess.

  22. The obvious notation in my moniker is that I am a gun owner. I am also a devout Christian, who believes that resistance to evil is mandatory, compulsurate, requried, and expected… even unto death.

    For those of you who are Christians, and searching your souls for the answer of shoot or don’t shoot, Larry Pratt wrote an article over 10 years ago on “The Bible and Gun Control”, and it goes deep into some areas. Also, elsewhere is a biblical review of Exodus 3:20 (“Thou shalt not murder”) that describes the original Hebrew word of retsach (spelling?), and how it denotes a 1st Degree Murder… not self defense.

    Rourke, the truth is that many people do not know if they can. It is up to all of us to train as if we can, to practice, to be prepared for the fight to save lives.

    Psalm 144:1: “Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle.”

  23. I have a zillion things to say on this matter, but nobody has a zillion years to read it. So, let me say this…I always have & always will be a big beleiver in “love thy neighbor”, “be generous & help those lesser than thou”, and “DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WISH OTHERS TO DO UNTO YOU”. So if anyone attemps to harm my family in any way, shape or form, I will not hesitate with due action of any means neccessary to protect my family so that they (we) may survive. If someone aims to cause me or my family harm, they best be prepared to be on the receiving end of a mighty big hurt from my gun that I will be aiming right between their eyes. There would be no getting up from that one.

    I am a First Southern Baptist & strongly believe in preserving life. SPECIALLY THE LIVES OF MY FAMILY. That includes any suplies that I have painstakingly accumulated over the years, that would help my family survive. I come from a long line of military men & women. My husband was military. I was raised country and have been taught skills in hunting, fishing & survival & I know how to use them. I know how to make weapons from all that God & nature has to offer in the event that I find myself without. I will defend my family and what is mine at any cost.

    Exodus 22:2 “If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.”

    It does not have to be an “end of the world” or SHTF situation for you to be in a dangerous/scary confrontation with unsavory people. That danger could even come from a neighbor, friend or relative. A step-cousin tried to have his way with me when I was just 13 years old. Because of my upbringing, I was strong of spirit, body and mind & fought him off. I survived. I caught a neighbor “peeping” in my young daughter’s bedroom window…never saw him again (he moved)…Don’t think he will be peeping into many windows anymore. I wonder if the ER was able to save his left eye. I protected what was mine (my 15 year old daughter).

    For those that are convinced that God would never sanction the act of ever harming or killing another human being in self defense, protect, or to survive, then they may want to take another look at the Bible. Specially the Old Testament. There are many instances where God DID sanction such acts and guided men into battle and were victorious.

    As I said, I believe in the Almighty God, helping others, preserving all life, and “doing unto others”…but if the survival & well-being of my family are in jeapardy, you can bet your booties that I will stand my ground, and bullets will fly if that is what is needed.

    We should all be prepared to defend what is rightfully ours against the unsavory people & many other dangers of this world.

    “Do unto others as you wish others to do unto you”, but defend and protect what is rightfuly yours.
    Blessings & Prayers to all!

  24. I am a certified N.R.A. Personal Protection Instructer, Also, a Certifed Refuse to be a Crime Victim Instructor. I competed (mostly I.D.P.A), in two, or three tactical shooting matches a month, against ciilians, and Police Officers for four years. I was the choosen “victim” for violent criminals on three seperate occasions within a three year period. The last involved a deadly force shooting, where I shot an armed robber who was trying to put his gun to my head. He is now a para-plegic. After the last event, I felt sorry for the guy I shot. I never felt any guilt or remorse over it. He decided to come into my place of business intent to use a gun to rob me, and maybe worse. That was his decision, not mine.

    The deadly force issue is anything but simple. Some in the Prepper Community are arming up to military tactical levals. They see survival situations as akin to war. I suspect that they will argue, that they are just prepairing for the worst. I will point out, that if one ever even gets to the point of shooting someone, you’re having a REALLY bad day, in which, you have failed at situational awareness, avoidance, and tactical profiling, and thus gotten yourself into an avoidable potential tragidy.

    By trgidy, I’m not just speaking of the people you shoot. Use of deadly force has huge potential consiquences. Life and death deadly force events which seem obvious at the moment, are often impossibe to later make a Jury of twelve understand. Most survival events will end sooner, or later, and you must expect to be called to account for your actions. Do we really want to see any possible major survival event as a “Special Operations” mission?

    As a pactical matterm, very few of our homes have potential as defendable tactical emplacements. In most cases, a bullet fired at the outside can pass completely through your home, and out the other side. There are unguarded angles of approach. There are obstructed lanes of fire. There is the risk of being burned out. There are close by concealed points behind which attackes can take positions to lay down fire. Also, you could be facing many attackers who will beseage you 24 hours a day until they wear you down. The practical aspects of seeing evey survival event as a tactical mission are daunting. For many who prepare to “bug out” they will become a special operations team of one. Even Navy Seals only very rairly send single individuals into enemy country. When they do, you can be sure that they’re not dragging the wife and kids along on the mission.

    All of the above said, there really are people in this world who will harm you and your loved ones. All it takes is that you have something they want, and that they believe that they can get away with taking it from you. Also, most of us would be shocked to descover what we ourselves are capable of if someone else has food, which they will not share, and our childern are starving to death before our eyes.

    It’s far more likey that you will be dealing with a few scavengers who are rooting through homes seeking to loot whatever small useful, or valuable items they can find. Many of them will be just normal folkes driven to do things that they would otherwise never even normally consider. How you would handle such a situation demands thought. Do you really expect just to shoot down anyone who crosses you’re threashhold uninivited? How do you tell a real threat from some poor schnook just seaching for a can of food for to for his family? These are very tough issues indeed.Often prepping becomes an exerise in selfishness. I’ve got mine, and screw everyone else. Understand that the forst ones that first come to your door begging, and then demanding to share will be your neighbors and friends.

    Deadly force is sometimes justified and nessessary. To be clear, the use of deadly force is only legally justified at the exact moment when you become convinced that you, or another innocent person is about to be killed, or critically injured by someone. It’s not legal one second before you reach that point, or one second after the threat lessons. Not only may you be called upon to justify you’re use of deadly force, the demand my be made that you explain the nessessity of every shot you fired. and even to justify why you felt compelled to have a weapon.

    The use of deadly force is also a moral issue. Many people just can’t find it in themselves to kill another person. This is something that each of us must search our soles over in advance of the possiblity.

    Employing deadly force out of fear. or deep insecurity speeks of a lack of pre-desicion making, sole searching, and avoidance planning. It also shows a lack of “engagement training”. Not jsut proficancy with weapons,…. Skills involving communication, and intelligence gathering to determine intention. Interpersonal skills. Things for which virtually no formal training is available, and where only one, or two venues exist to practice. Force on force exercises with live acters, roll players, with whom you can interact is the only effective training.

    To sum up, Survival events are never likely to be as they are immagined before hand. People, and societies act, and interact in comple ways. The issue of Deadly Force is very complex. Still, very real threats can, and do exist. Refusing to take them seriously, or living in denile is dangeious in the extreem. Those able to defend themselves should prpare to do do so. But there are a huge number of things to consider before the day comes. I hope I have provided somethings to think about.

  25. I think it depends heavily on what the disaster is. If it’s say, an EMP then things would go real bad real fast. If Law Enforcement won’t be coming any time soon then you do what you have to. I try to keep in mind that if it is any of the 99.999% disasters where it’s localized and things will return to normal some day, then you will have to answer for anything you do during that time.

    During a big earthquake can you justify making that 500 yard shot with your scoped rifle to a jury when things settle back down? Probably not. If it’s truly a SHTF situation (very unlikely in my opinion) then things would change. Are we talking a few days with out help or has a Solar Flare knocked out the entire worlds power supply?

    Not only do you have to answer for anything you do during a disaster but you also have to be able to live with your self.

  26. Wow, lots of thoughts on this topic.

    I’m former military (RLTW), former LEO, current grandfather, father, and husband (my priorities in order). I have used deadly force in both offensive and defensive situations. In all of the instances I would have to say that training and team were critical components. Could I have done it without either of those elements? Maybe, maybe not. I’m not an inherently cruel or sociopathic individual. I have to admit there are a few folks I would like to see die a slow and excruciatingly painful death (Hanoi Jane, the sob’s that killed Berg, every baby raper enjoying their prison time, and a few others). However, I would have to say that deep down if push came to shove and somebody was threatening my family I would not have hesitated to erase them with or without my previous experiences.

    Middle son was in the Navy on the USS Ohio. Luckily, he never got in a shooting contest (that particular boat carried 24 missles with 2 to 4 nukes on each of them). Youngest son is currently serving in the Army – 2 tours in Iraq, 1 extended tour in Afghanistan – and for better or worse he had to use his weapon to reduce the local population. The other 2 chose not to go into the military.

    I make my kids practise live fire exercises around the homestead. I have created pop up targets with fixed paint ball guns to simulate return fire. It’s not perfect, but it’s the best I can do without resorting to illegal activities. I use cute pictures of ballerinas, smiling tourists, politicians (from both sides of the aisle), and even a few zombies to ensure the shooter will not hesitate no matter what their opponent appears to be. To date we have had one hesitation (daughter had an objection to shooting at a picture of Ron Paul) and one severe mishap (one of our milk goats wandered onto the range – cabrito).

    I can’t tell anyone how to react to a stressful situation. It takes lots of training for the reactions to become instinctive. Sometimes, it helps to envision your assailant doing something really nasty to a loved one. That only works if you have time to mentally prepare. In a quick and dirty fire fight you simply need to react as best you can while keeping your emotions in check with your intellect. Use proper fire control, support your team members (if you’re on your own, oops), don’t assume an opponent is out of the action just because they’re down, and keep a fall back position in mind in case you have to displace (only Airborne like being surrounded, it sucks for everyone else).

    Great discussion, Rourke. Another reason I really like your site.

  27. I have been silent on this and several other websites for about a year now. I have read and digested prepper comments and technical(how to ) data for my own use and safety. However, this subject has comnpelled me to humbly offer my input. As a ten year law enforcement veteran in Los Angeles and six years active in the United States Marine Corps, I have managed to appreciate the psychological phenomenon of criminal behavior and a human being’s response to deadly threats.
    I teach the safe, responsible and decisive use of firearms to police, military, armed officers and civilians(concealed weapons, home defence). I first inserted in this sentance “combat firearms” but as I remind folks, it isn’t necessarily the weapon you have, but what you do with that weapon when faced with a deadly attack.
    So, my shared input here may be frightening for some but is essentail to address! : We all possess something the Marine Corps has been developing and refining since its organizational concept, that we all have a “Warrior spirit”! That warrior spirit defines the level of aggression one “delivers, executes or installs” at the time of self preservation. Let me give an example; When a student/client proudly proclaims that he or she would give up their life for their family of country, I confirm their conviction but offer that it is a far better outcome if the bad guy gives up his/her life instead. So far, everyone has agreed!
    So preppers, keep preparing, keep your “tactical psychological edge” by TRAINING! I prove to my students daily, that “proper firearms and other tactical training, a good plan and a sound warrior spirit” will definingly increase your survival outcome over the aggressor.
    Keep the spirit!
    g

  28. A few additional comments: Thank, Pam, for putting everything in perspective! One thing that I did not mention in my letter was a mental prepping technique for those who have doubts whether they can kill to protect their interests. Watch the videos of the LA riots in 1992. They will give you an idea of the dangers we face during a WROL scenario. These films may also give you the “inner fire” that will help you squeeze the trigger. Good Luck!

  29. I have read and appreciate all of your thoughtful responses. You have given me many things to follow through on, as far as training, the books and dvd’s and much more preparation here on my place. I was glad that some women gave their own thoughts/experiences, too. I am a single, 50’s, mom to 4 young klds and care for my disabled brother. My adult kids are 20-40 minutes away, but not here in my rural home. My sons have all said they would come to the farm if things went bad. It is all on me,here, and I know what I have to do. You are right, you must be trained thoroughly in handling that particular kind of crisis, mindset/ prior training is key. I am a nurse, so medical/mental health aspects are very familiar to me. I have no military or law enforcement experience. I have hunted deer(I couldn’t bring myself to shoot it) and done little target shooting.I am not opposed to hunting and ate venison, bear, etc many times. After that hunting incident, one of my cats was stepped on by a horse and had a broken back, was in obvious pain and I did shoot her to put her out of pain. I can shoot if I have to. I wish things were different and we didn’t have to have this conversation, but it is a very necessary one and for that, I thank you all very much!

  30. I posted a reply in the original article not seeing this thread. I agree with the above comments, and think that Lynn’s memory of Katrina is just really incorrect. It only took 5 days for the situation to be described as complete anarchy.

    To further the personal soul searching point, though, I have had several recent discussions about having a well-armed household. The biggest concern I have is that one of two people are likely to break into our house under “normal” conditions – a really bad guy meaning to cause physical harm OR some teenager being dumb who lives in the neighborhood and whose parents I will likely know. Unfortunately, in both cases either them or myself are unlikely to survive the incident, and I would feel absolutely horrible about killing the teenager for the rest of my life. Hopefully circumstances would allow me to subdue him peacefully, but when an unknown man is forcibly entering your house in the middle of the night and you have two girls to protect you can’t take chances you’ll scare him off, or just wing him, and then end up dead yourself.

  31. Reading Lynn’s email and all the responses was a sobering experience for me. I fear that Lynn and some of the others will hesitate and some will be unable to shoot no matter what the circumstances. The prospect of a SHTF episode will be terminal for many. If you or any of the others want to know more about deadly force, I recommend thet you read “On Killing” by David Grossman, Lt. Col. US Army retired. David is a psychologist and helps returning GI deal with what they did in the defense of their country. I have read Dave’s book twice, have attended two of his clinics and have corresponded with him for nearly ten years. As a result, I have a good idea of what my behavior would be if the SHTF. We live in a small rural community and I am a graduate of Col. Jeff Cooper’s Gunsite Academy and John Farnam’s basic and advanced handgun self defence courses. For the past 8 years, I’ve been a member of our county’s Sheriff’s Posse. In that capacity, we must be prepared to back-up our deputies.

    If I wasn’t prepared to use deadly force in response to a life threatening situation, I’d give serious thought to selling my guns. Keep in mind that we live within 50 miles of a state prison and a federal prison. I’m not sure how long those facilities would hold up without electricity and if prison security personnel went home to protect their families if something awful happened. I’d like to believe that faced with a crisis, honest Americans would help each other get through it. But, face it, these same people burn cars, trash neighborhoods and rob stores after their home team wins a championship.

    I guess I’ll just pray for Lynn.

  32. In in April 2007 I was at the house of a woman I was then dating. It was a warm day and only the screen door was closed in the front of the house. Two young men cane right in through that door at 4:30 in the afternoon. When I came up off of the couch with a pistol, they ran.
    I haven’t been in very many violent situations in my adult life, and though I have trained with guns, I wasn’t sure what my response would be. When I was coming up with that .45 my mind was cold and clear, I knew I was going to shoot without any hesitation. The only reason I didn’t is that they turned before my gun was completely aimed. So now I know.
    As I said I was calm and clear until the situation was over then I spent a while with the shakes. In the end I was glad I hadn’t had to shoot anyone, but it is a strange comfort to know that I would.
    Unless you are a hermit, you have people who depend on you. It is wrong to allow them to be deprived of you because of some murderous thieving scum has a passing desire for you possessions and or/ your body or life.

  33. By Rodney, July 11, 2012 @ 9:30 am
    “I have bought a few books relating to prepping and survival and encouraged her to read them. However, she would rather not.”
    -I rarely, maybe with 1 out of 100 people, can find a common interest concerning prepping, and
    even then, they are not on the same page, usually.
    Sure, some people like to hunt, or fish, and go camping or boating.
    But to me that is a hobby, they spend a weekend, then go home, get back on the treadmill, and live off of their plastic credit card lifestyle!
    Most, or at least many, think I am “to much”, in my thinking.
    My fiance always says she”supports anything i do concerning prepping”, but she shows no interest at all, has no patience, and will not hear things i would like to share.
    i am NOW trying to just keep my thoughts to myself, and when i study and research something,
    i just go and get it, when i can. put it away. and sometimes hide it so that their is no “relationship trouble”.
    ——
    By Pam, July 11, 2012 @ 12:03 pm
    “we need to recognize that not everybody thinks the way we do.”
    -No, not everyone does think how we do, but we preppers are not alone.
    -We at least have fine internet web sites like this to share our thoughts. We whom are like minded!
    I do not want to hurt anyone! And do not want to get hurt. I prep, spend much time, energy, and money, trying to follow my heart.
    i have friends who laugh at me, and one who says when shtf he will come to my door with his family.
    (some “friend”, RIGHT)?
    i also, if i could, would like to be able to help others, in hard times. But i have only so much!
    We have to all think “community”.
    Yet, i spend considerable time prepping with a lone wolf attitude, as i do feel so alone!
    I FEEL THAT HARD TIME ARE COMING FAST!
    i also feel that what is mine, ALL THAT IS MINE, which has been so long planning, so hard fought for, with blood, sweat and tears,
    that if someone were to try to harm, hurt me, or mine, with the thought of taking it,
    that i WILL DEFEND MYSELF!
    Prepping, acquiring survival skills, etc. is the RIGHT THING TO DO!
    I know i am right. i have always known.
    “Be prepared”, the Boy Scouts Motto, is a fine mantra to follow.
    ——-
    By Arlene, July 11, 2012 @ 3:20 pm
    “I have learned that some people for various reasons are mean and selfish and cruel and do not have any victim empathy for those they hurt or kill”.
    “I believe that MOST people are good and kind but starvation and addiction and other factors can cause people to do horrible acts that they normally would not do.”
    -Yes, “MOST people are good and kind”.
    But i personally have seen bad men, and bad things.
    For example:
    i have seen a man die by gun fire. i watched as each of four bullets entered his stomach.
    In a public place! They sauntered up to the victim, so smooth, so casual.
    Then it happened.
    As they walked away, they slowly just made it seem like nothing had happened.
    aND THIS happend when times are good.

    i fear for when times are really really bad.

    Prepare!
    Si Vis Pacem Parabellum!

    Brearbear

  34. Personally, as I have written before and elsewhere, I think the mental preparation for SHTF is as or more important than beans, bullets, and bandaids. No matter your creed all of us have a moral code which informs how we act. The problem is that often times that moral code has a normalcy bias, just like other attitudes. As a preacher, I often hear people tell me that the fifth commandment of the Law is thou shall not kill. In normal times, this gloss, is a good rule of thumb, but it is not very accurate, and is VERY dangerous in a life and death situation. Even if you have some exception to this rule somewhere in the back of your mind, unless you really have thought it through this moral code will cause you to hesitate if you do not thoroughly consider the exceptions.

    In the commandments the word Kill/Murder in Hebrew “raw-tsakh” never refers to just the taking of life, as in an animal. It always is presumed to mean the unjustified, if not immoral, killing of a person.

    Now you might say, in a life and death situation “I would do what’s necessary,” but unless you are an amoralist, a sociopath, this is nonsense. Human’s make moral choices based on principle (or world view) and habit. Doing something over and over again, be it good or evil, makes this action EASY. In the Christian tradition we call this virtue or vice. However, it seems to me that intellectually we develop habits of thought like virtues, in the form of principles. If we are intellectually lazy and really don’t think through the logic of “raw-tsakh,” then lacking a habit of self-defense, our principle of “thou shall not kill” will get us in trouble.

    In fact, all of the commandments are moral absolutes, that include in themselves, and exclusion of all justifying conditions, and so its important for a Christian or Catholic to understood how these absolutes have been understood by the Judeo-Christian tradition.

    Personally, I have no moral qualms about killing. Killing an animal, for food, or an unjust aggressor in self-defense of myself or another, and I believe this moral preparation makes me safer.

  35. BrerBear,

    I think there are all stages of “preppers”. Some just want to put a few things back in case they lose power for a few days, others have been without food/water/lights, etc., for a week or more due to some act of man or nature and others, I think like yourself, are more into effecting a lifestyle change that will enable them to slowly slip off the grid and live a much more independent lifestyle. You should not have to hide things from your spouse when you are trying to prepare and protect your loved ones in case the worst happens, no matter to what degree.

    We as a society have lost by attrition, most of the skill sets that allowed our not to distant ancestors the ability to survive in situations where personal actions…. hunting, finding water, making something we needed instead of going online or to a big box store to purchase the article made by someone else.

    I come from a family of farmers and I still remember the stories of how my grandfather plowed fields and planted crops, raised chickens, pigs and cows so that his family could eat. He cut cords of wood so that they would be warm in the winter and all in the family worked toward their own survival. This was all happening while bankers and stockbrokers jumped to their deaths from NYC buildings and people stood in bread lines to be handed food as they had no skills to cope with the changing lifestyle as they had known it.

    You are trying to do something valuable for you family and they should be totally grateful for your efforts. We work as a family toward making us less dependent on outside sources and it is fulfilling. I can imagine you are frustrated when your efforts have to be for the most part clandestine. I for one, wish I knew more of the skills you have. I am a farmer and not a hunter. BUT, prepping is all about helping each other and I truly wish we were close and could benefit from each others’ strengths.

    Keeping on lists like these and talking with others of a like mindset will help you feel more of a group and less alone. My grandfather often said, “Prepare for the worst and Hope for the best”. That is all we are trying to do and make our families safe. While we can’t all move back in time to a simpler lifestyle, we can keep the skills alive that may one day keep us and our loved ones alive. Adaptability is a priceless skill. Those that adapt live and those that don’t perish…… Nature is a harsh mistress.

    Keep on doing what you are doing.

  36. I’m here from the Government and I’m here to help! Would someone let me know how to keep the military, police, national guard and government from helping me, If I posted signs, had dogs, guns and able to survive with food stores. And still the so-called government wanted to help me, do I still have the right to protect myself????

  37. Mike brings up an important issue.

    Can you prevent the “Government” from forcing you out of your home, even though you have many months of supplies? The short answer is NO.

    Webster defines “To Govern” as “To Control”. In our times, those in power are obsessed with maintaining their control. The lenghts to which they will go in that effort can not be over estimated.

    In a major “event”, Martial Law will be declared within 24 hours. From the moment the President say that a State of National Emergency exists, a series of Presidetial Executive Orders called the Continuity Of Government Orders kick in. These have been slowley drafted and strenghened since the Johnson Adminstration.

    Cleaverly worded to seem non-threatening, they can be cleverly used to nullify all Constitutional Protections, to set aside all existing laws, to force local authories and Governments to stand down, to allow for the forcable relocations of entire populations, provide for the ceasure of privite property and resurces, and allow for citizens to be forced to labor even against their will. Just last week a new one was installed giving the Govenment total contol over the internet in a crissis.

    Remember in Star Trek, when the Borg showed up saying “Resistance is Futile”? Well today, virtually every police department either has it’s own SWAT team, or participates in one with nearby jurisdictions. And DHS has been deepley engaged for the last five years in “enlisting” them to think of themselves as part of “Federal Authority”. What we have now is the militarization of our local police forces. They have machine guns, and armored cars. If they show up at your door, and order you to leave, you can go out walking, or in a body bag, your choice. And, so much for a years supply of food and water salted away in your celler. Will they be willing to follow such orders from the Feds? Likely many will.

    Since the end of the Iraq War Brigades have been retrained for urban police actions within the US. They practice setting up roadblocks to stop and question, they practice house to house seaches for guns and other contraband. They practice the detention and internment of citizens. Will they follow their Officers orders to opress? No doubt, most will. They even have created a new military occupation specialty, directed toward the detention, and relocation of citizens and whole populations. Just a few years ago they established a new Military Command Structure “to conduct military operations within the US”. I know that all of this sounds hard to believe, but it’s all true.

    FEMA is vastly better than it was in Katrina. They have a Director now who is a very sharp tool. But this said, there are major limits on how much they can handle. The capacity just doesn’t exist to sustain tens of millions of us, in place through a crisses lasting over the much vaughted 72 hours, that DHS says we should be prepped to survive.

    The best (or worst) they can do is to try to concentrate people into desiganted locations where they can exert control, and where logistics are easyier. Expect that in anything other than total collapse, we will see this happening to us for sure.

    What can you do? Well, not much,…. You can use the “magic hours” between the onset of most events, and the general realization by the public that some great threat is underway, and the typically hours or days of delay in the Government getting rolling, to bug out, to hide out until you can return home to whatever has not been looted of your supplies. You can distribute your supples in “cach” locations, so if you make it back home, you still have resources. You can be part of a network of like minded people so that you have some place to bug out to where supplies will be waiting. You can just accept that despite all of your best efforst you may loose your home preps, and even wind up in a “camp”.

    An issue rairly talked about is that your home could be in an uninhabitable area after an “event”. Radiation from a plant melt down, flooding, chemical contamination, pandemic, etc. can make staying in place with your perps the very worst decision possible.

    Sorry if I’m depressing everyone, but sometimes we get so caught up in the prepping, that we fail to take the time to think of the realities of the big picture.

  38. Lou-intense but filled with truth.Thanks- you are stating what Ihave mulled over . I wish there was a solution.Theres a reason that H Sec. bought so many million rounds of ammo.I have a bum per sticker that says “ignore your rights and they will disappear” Caching supplies is a lot of work and can expensive but its worth it. Some of us will fight for our freedom to the death rather than be put into confinement-others will go along. Lets pray it never comes to that. Lets use our power to boycott products and vote to change the way we are doing
    things in the US. Any suggestions as to how we can avoid this destiny is welcomed by me. If theres a natural disaster
    so gigantic than possibly not too many folks will survive anyway. Then comes heaven where we wont have to worry about needing emergency supplies !!!!
    For now please buy any products that have corn and canned corn and soy products now because come fall the prices will sky rocket and the supply will be limited .This includes feed for cattle and horses. Rourke and fellow preppers- I appreciate you all. Arlene

  39. Hi Arlene,
    One cleaver idea for caching supples that I picked up on recently is renting one or more small rental storage units at one to several locations, near home, or at, or along a bugout route. Some of these storage facilites offer closit size storage, for just a few bucks a month.

    Of course you need to consider the effects of heat and cold on your supplies, and, there may be the issue of easy access in times of crissis. Also, I would NEVEAR store firearms and ammo there. This said, the deperate hords arn’t likely to be looting storage lockers which mostly are just full of old houshold junk. At least not for a while anyway.

  40. Well, as usual – I’m a day late and a dollar short…just catching this one, but I MUST respond! I am seething at the ignorance in this woman’s remarks.

    Lynn did not “hear” of anyone getting shot over food or (fill in blank)? Where were you? Which beach did you have your head buried in?

    In New Orleans, which was affected by the LEVEE BREAK – and not by Katrina – Katrina was a direct strike on the shores of Mississippi, so, can we all just get that straight? It was not Katrina that caused New Orleans’ problem – it was the levee break and the subsequent flooding.

    Mississippi learned a lesson from Camille in 1969, and leadership since that time has done an admirable job of “being ready” for the next big strike. MS was ready. Her people did not stay behind, crawl out on rooftops, and scream, “somebody save me”. Mississippians responded and we took care of our own; but that’s Mississippi. We don’t wait for the Calvary – we ARE the Calvary. Therein lies the difference between the two places – I know, because I’ve lived for many years in each.

    Now to the point…

    Lynn clearly didn’t follow the “news” of the time. Shootings were common in the Superdome – for no particular reason, sometimes; just because certain individuals were armed and bored. Or sometimes the boys got into an argument over some foolish word exchange – “boys will be boys”, right? But there were a number of shootings in which one party simply wanted what someone else had – regardless how little it might be, so, they just took it, and, if the party of the first part resisted the effort, the thief simply shot them. It happened several times. It was reported well after the fact, because, what else could they do?

    People DID die in the Superdome, for a number of reasons, in case you’ve all forgotten. And the people who were injured by guns, knives, and makeshift weapons were too frightened to follow up with law enforcement 2-3 WEEKS AFTER THE FACT, when it was first possible to do so.

    Then there were the rapes. Several women were raped just trying to go to the restrooms – as only certain ones were open, and the thugs were ever present. It became a matter of going to the restroom in a “posse” for safety reasons. Children were not safe running about, and so they had very limited range. Children were bored. And hot – there was no a/c – and the roof was damaged, so it leaked; NO is always 90% humidity (on a good day) and, in August, when the LEVEE BREACH flooded the City, it was 100 deg. F and 90% humidity or higher. Mold and mildew grew quickly. Insects had the run of the place. It was hot, stinky, and dangerous in the Superdome. But you dared not venture away from your “posse”.

    And let’s not even get into all the looting in the city (once the water began to recede), some of which was responded to, but, mostly not, because there was no one to respond to it – and the few NOPD officers still there could not have been stretched more thinly for their minimum wage salaries (O.K., they’re not paid minimum wage $7.25/hour, but, it’s not much better than that, for most of them).

    The idea that someone would say, “I didn’t hear about any shootings over….(fill in blank)” just knocks my socks off! Either they were living on another planet, or they have serious memory issues.

    How do I know? I lived through Katrina in Mississippi, and an adult child was in NO at the time. This is not hearsay. I also read about some of the attacks in the local papers, so I know they were published.

    Try telling the folks stuck in the Dome who only wanted out they didn’t need to defend themselves. I think you’ll get an earful (that’s if they don’t hurt you).

    OH, and by the way, it WAS war. A very one-sided war, but it was war in that city – not because it had to be, but because “a certain element” was determined to make it so.

    Wake up and smell the gunpowder, while you still can. Yes, I’m angry!

    • Homeinsteader –

      Here is your task for the day:

      1. Fill bathtub with warm water.
      2. Place bubble bath in water – stir to create bubbles.
      3. Place candles around bath tub and light.
      4. Turn on some soothing music.
      5. RELAX!!

      In all seriousness – I think you are being a bit harsh on Lynn.

      The deal with Katrina versus the levee’s – does it really matter? The place got flooded and if Katrina had not ever happened the levee’s would not have broke.

      I agree with the accounts you described – it was terrible and is a glimpse as to what could happen in the future.

      Take care -Rourke

      PS – Enjoy the bath!

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